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10K views 24 replies 18 participants last post by Captcaper Mar 3, 2015
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Glockin'Bob Discussion starter
59 posts · Joined 2010
#1 · Feb 2, 2011
I wonder if the fuel filters on the 6.7 is more susceptible to plugging due to the design with a remote primary filter. The old 7.3 had a filter bowl which was heated with coolant flowing through the base to help prevent problems with the filter plugging. With our 6.7s, the filter is remote and quite exposed to the cold air. Waking up this morning to -20 F. I took the car to work, I'm not sure I trust the truck when temps dip this low. My old 7.3 I'd driven in temps down to -30 F and it never sputtered. But this exposed primary fuel filter and cold weather got me thinking (a dangerous thing).
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#2 · Feb 2, 2011
I would think that Ford has done the research on this since there are so many trucks sold to be used in the oil fields of Alaska. There were a few trucks featured in Ice Road Truckers and temps above Coldfoot, AK can top -40.
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#3 · Feb 3, 2011
In cold weather (it can get to -35F here) I just ensure I have the proper mixture of fuel (winterized) to keep things moving along.. Never had a problem. I'll make sure I do the same on the new one; due in 5-6 weeks.
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#4 · Feb 3, 2011 (Edited)
Our trucks contain a Fuel conditioning module that brings the fuel to a certain temp and recirculates it back to the fuel tank. This circulation of warm fuel keeps everything working when the engine is running. So therotically you should be able to run at extremely cold temps, ( as long as the temperature loss isn't greater than the system can heat)
From the 6.7 bible
Fuel Supply System
• The DFCM includes the following components:
–– low pressure fuel pump
–– 10 micron primary fuel filter
–– thermal recirculation valve
–– water fuel separator (~200ml)
–– Water in Fuel (WIF) sensor
–– water drain (manual operation)
• After the fuel is conditioned by the DFCM, the clean pressurized fuel is sent to the engine mounted fuel filter assembly
where particles larger than 4 micron are filtered out of the fuel. After the fuel is filtered, it is routed to the high pressure
fuel pump
• Thermal recirculation valve is fully open up to
between 24-27°C (75 - 80°F) and fully closed at
38°C (100°F) (all fuel goes back to tank)
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#5 · Feb 4, 2011
I live in Greeley, CO and had mine *almost gell up the other morning. It started just fine but when I went back outside after warming it up the dash said "low fuel pressure" I decided to chance it since I was heading to the ford dealer for my wandering steering. Made it about a block before it said "reduced engine power" I turned around and made it home. Some 911 diesel did the trick. Btw this was with kum and go diesel that is "pre treated" with power service
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#6 · Feb 5, 2011
As Painted Horse said, just before the return fuel goes back into the DFCM there is a coolant driven heater or cooler which ever is the current situation. This fuel is then mixed in the bowl for the primary filter in the DFCM. Basically the same as the 7.3.
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#7 · Feb 5, 2011
Understand that IF your truck has sat outside overnight in 0* temps. it will take a while to warm the fuel system up.
First the truck has to heat up the cooling system, Next that hot coolant has to pass thru the fuel conditioner and warm the fuel. The excess fuel not being burned will be returned to the tank. If you have a full 37 gal tank of cold diesel, It could take a long time to warm that entire tank up to above waxing temps
If you are driving all day, Yes the truck will do that. But it's not going to that in a 5 minute warm up cycle. If the fuel is gelled in the fuel tank. You are dead before you start.
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Glockin'Bob Discussion starter
59 posts · Joined 2010
#8 · Feb 5, 2011
... which kinda brings us back full circle. With the old 7.3, that fuel filter was up there in the valley with coolant from the block circulating through the base. If I plugged the truck in for the night, the filter was already warm. Also, the way the old system worked, I think a lot more warmed fuel was being recirculated back to the tank. Maybe that isn't ideal in the summer but when the temps dip sub-zero, it's kinda nice. I haven't seen anything which indicates to me that with this truck the warmed fuel ever goes back to the tank. The reason I care about the tank is to prevent the wax drop-out problem that our ULSD exhibits or so I've read.
I may be worrying about nothing, I haven't really heard complaints from the guys up north. Are the guys in Canada running ULSD too?
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#12 · Feb 5, 2011
Glockin'Bob said: Are the guys in Canada running ULSD too?
As already said we only have ULSD now but in addition (unlike the states) there are minimum cloud point targets imposed on diesel fuel by CAN/CGSB 3.520 and 3.517 with -37°C (-35°F) being the target winter cloud point where I am at.
I have started our 6.0's in as low as -48°C (-54°F) after being turned off and plugged in for several hours with just the factory block heater and a 2 amp battery charger/maintainer when running this fuel.
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#9 · Feb 5, 2011
Only ULSD can be sold in Canada.
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#10 · Feb 5, 2011
PH...you got it right. My 6L has hfcm heater, but like you said heater only works if eng. running. I assume D1 still avail. in really cold areas, otherwise anti gel add. for sure.
Don't know if t/f, but not long ago thread posted saying lots of fuel gelling due to not finding #1 fuel in northern states.?
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#11 · Feb 5, 2011
It's not exactly how it works, yes there is a lag while the coolant temp comes up but the DFCM has a thermostat in it for the fuel in the filter area so it gets priority for heated return fuel. The priority is to keep the filter above gelling temps. IIRC the change over is at 100 F that it goes to the tank. It seems to do the job as I have not heard of to many complaints of gelling.
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#13 · Feb 20, 2015 (Edited)
I'm chasing a cold weather situation with the low fuel pressure warning.
I get that initial warning ONLY if truck sits outside in 10 degree temps or less.
I'll get the initial warning, and IF I warm it up for 10 min and then proceed to BE VERY VERY easy on it (no heavy throttle and keeping rpms under 2k) I can usually limp it along indefinitely with no more warnings. (I only have a 10 mile commute)
Engine oil temp up to around 150 degrees by this time.
However, the second I give it some go pedal (lets say to pass someone) I'll get the low warning and imediately following I'll get the reduced engine warning followed by dead in the water no power (idle mode)
I reset the codes with my phone app and process repeats itself UNTIL I get the truck thawed out......even just an hour in the warmed shop usually thaws it enough to make the problem go away entirely.
0 degrees today and I can hear the pump in the DFCM complaining....VERY LOUD grinding/pumping/suction noises when key on as it apparently attempts to prime the system. (no signs ANYWHERE on/under the truck or engine bay of leaking diesel so guessing I can rule out air getting in?)
Once running, that loud noise will come and go. Dropped the filter and have 1/2 inch thick ice solid on bottom of the DFCM. Ice was so thick, it was clogging the drain.....when I opened the drain valve.....nothing came out the drain hole but some diesel did dribble out of the end of the thumbscrew once backed out far enough.
(keep in mind I just changed this filter maybe 200 miles ago ....yes that's right 2 hundred miles)
Tank is FULL (and never below about 1/3) and has a WAY overdose of Howe's treatment in it right now.
If weather is above 15 degrees.....I don't see any of these problems ever arise. I've towed several hundred miles with it when it's warm out and no problems. (I would assume that if DFCM pump was suspect...I'd see a flare up under load towing right??)
Thoughts????
Is my DFCM pump weak/on way out and just cant' move the fuel as well in very cold weather? Or does that much water collection in a couple hundred miles sound way out of line meaning I have some VERY bad quality fuel in there?
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#14 · Feb 20, 2015
Yeah, you want to drain them every two weeks and run quality additives appropriate for what you have going on. You need an antigel in winter and then add a cetane booster like Amsoil's. Running on low pressure from a blocked system is as hard and damaging, in fact more than pushing the water thru the system from not draining and using a demulsifying additive. You will want to get a health check done on that pump. If it's replaced before it grenade you can keep the costs down.
Constantly drain and use quality additives in the fueł if you want a common rail diesel to have a fighting chance.
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#15 · Feb 20, 2015
I'd be buying my fuel elsewhere. Last year it was down to -10, truck started and ran fine with no additives in it.
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#16 · Feb 20, 2015
My truck displayed the low fuel pressure alarm the other day, it was near 0*. I had remote started, it was displayed when I got in, clicked OK and slowly took off down the road. Never had any problems, I use PS white bottle, I have a few bottles of Ford PM23, will use them next. I have 5500 miles on the truck, I have not drained my water separator yet. I did take it into dealer for complimentary oil change, I don't guess they drained it? it didn't state anything on invoice? Change oil- Motorcraft-10W30 Diesel Rated Oil, top off all fluids? it has 5500 miles on it, I bet I have hit the wiper washer 3 whole times so far, well, maybe 4, crappy weather here now.
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#17 · Feb 21, 2015
Owned a diesel in central MO for 15 years, only time we had trouble in winter the problem turned out to be a bad fpr on the old 7.3. It does get below 0 here occasionally, but no problem. Sounds to me like the fuel dealers aren't doing their jobs in your area.
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#18 · Feb 21, 2015
Had my 1st gel up w/ a '15 6.7 last week. Same thing as others. Low fuel pressure and then reduced power. Unable to get to dealer, they suggested their sister dealer (Lincoln) who took it in right away. Told me about an hour later that things were gelled and 350 bucks to replace filters. Refused their service and drove home---no problems. Went to NAPA and got filters next day and changed myself. I did add 911 to tank after I got back from Lincoln dealer and then dabbed some on a rag for inside of filter housing as there was some ice along threads. put a tad 911 in housing before re-installing. No problems. Believe I got some water w/ 5 gallons purchased before main fuel stop. BTW, Lincoln dealer (or stealer) wanted 150 bucks for the filters!!! Napa had listed for 114 (purchased for 85), and then ordered some from Diesel Filters Online for 52/ea.
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#19 · Feb 21, 2015
So they tried to get you but you got their warm air in the service lane for an hour.:lol::thumbsup:
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#20 · Feb 25, 2015
Other than the PS 911, I've not seen winter blend fuel additives (anti-gel) suggested which would hopefully prevent the problem to begin with. 911 is, as the name suggests, for emergencies and not a normal winter fuel additive.
I've seen suggestions that anti-gel is not needed until temps drop below zero, which has happened all winter in New England, but have seen some problems reported below 10 degrees.
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#21 · Mar 2, 2015
well i only froze up my 6.4 once and that was with antigel in the fuel and it was -24 without the windchill and it sat for 3 days that was a miserable morning laying in a snowbank in -40 windchill changing out the filter. i drained the water filter monthly b4 that i now drain it like every 2 weeks in the winter. i still haven't got any water out of the 6.7 but i'm only fueling at the truck stop so far but for one 5 gal fill to get to the truck stop. i can't wait for spring when i can build a new garage but thats another story.
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#22 · Mar 3, 2015
There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that these newer trucks are more prone to gelling.
To prove it I fueled both my trucks up on the same day (my 6.7 and 7.3)
I've never had a gelling problem in my 7.3 in 10yrs mind you so didn't figure this year would be any different.
With the same fuel from the same station my 6.7 gelled up numerous times. Keep in mind not really gelling to the point of filter clogging but rather gelling enough to make the DFCM pump complain and suck air thus causing the "low fuel pressure" warning then sending truck into limp mode.
It did this numerous times leaving me stranded at least 3 times needing a tow. All within a 2 week cold snap where temps never got above upper teens.
My 7.3 on the other hand never gelled (to the point of issues)
Always started (plugged in) and ran great once warmed up.
I then added anti-gel to the tank of the 6.7 but since it was below cloud point didn't really mix....until temps warm up.
All that to say.........YES these 6.7's are far more likely to have gelling issues than a 7.3
On the other hand, this 6.7 will start on a dime WITHOUT being plugged in well below zero. Very impressed with that.
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Dollarbill60
23 posts · Joined 2014
#23 · Mar 3, 2015
Not sure why all 6.7's are not having gell issues. My Truck has set in the parking lot all winter, at times -7. Allot in single digit weather. I run Power Service in every tank and double the dosage when extremely cold, drain the separator at the beginning of each month and check for water. Could it be crappy fuel$ Fairly new with the Power Stroke and love the Truck. Seems like doing all of the little things pay off.
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#24 · Mar 3, 2015
I never had a problem last year even at -10, no additives required. You can over-do additives, from what I've read on the 'net, that can cause jelling as well. Buy good fuel treated for the weather in your area and you should be fine. Buy fuel that was meant for a warmer area or warmer weather, then dump in too much additive and you are set up for problems.
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C
Captcaper
1233 posts · Joined 2002
#25 · Mar 3, 2015
If your having problems change the fuel filters. I added 911 etc. no deal. Changed filters and all was good. Maybe filters that need changing can't handle the cold,etc.
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