Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - Vid's Guide

📅 15 de noviembre de 2024 ✍️ By Sonia Ortiz ⏱️ 42 Mins Read 🗂️ Blog 🕒 Last updated: 16 de noviembre de 2024

#1051 7 years ago

StrangeSubset1

Pinside member

7y 47,300 707 2

I know this had been discussed a million times, but what's a good source for new shiny balls?

#1052 7 years ago

No_Skill

Pinside member

Bismarck, ND

8y 36,050 185 2

Titan has the super shiny ones.

https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=70

#1053 7 years ago

meeotch

Pinside member

8y 21,400 83

Dang. So I was reading the label on my can of Meguair's "Deep Crystal System Step #3 Carnauba Paste Wax", and noticed:

Totally unique formula uses pure Carnauba wax and a blend of exotic waxes, silicones, polymers, and resins.

This, immediately after applying it to my WH20 playfield. D'oh!

Some light googling turned up this list, straight from Meguiar's, listing the paint-safeness of all their products. Notably, none of their wax products - including both of the carnauba paste waxes (Deep Crystal and Gold Class), but excluding something called "High Temp Mold Release Wax" - are listed as paint safe.

Oh well. Chances are low that I'd be clearcoating this pf soon, anyhow. And maybe in the future they will have developed a foolproof way of removing silicone, or I will be a head in a glass jar, and thus unable to play physical pinball machines anymore.

#1054 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from meeotch:
t excluding something called "High Temp Mold Release Wax"

Avoid releasing mold

#1055 7 years ago

kdgardner9655

Inactive member

Weedville, PA

7y 22,400 10

Is waxing the same as clear coating? Would Blitz One Grand Wax just be enough? Also is it good to paint a playfield with acrylic paint and then wax it?

#1056 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from kdgardner9655:
Is waxing the same as clear coating?

No, wax protects the clearcoating from wear.

Quoted from kdgardner9655:
Also is it good to paint a playfield with acrylic paint and then wax it?

Once you paint it, THEN you clearcoat it to lock down and protect the paint.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

1 week later

#1057 7 years ago

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

10y 137K 16,151 31 1

So Im cleaning my pinball game, and have spent about an hour removing all the black dust from all accessible areas.

I blew out the ball trough and vacuumed the cabinet as well as the playfield.

I cleaned out all of the black dust from under the playfield.

I removed the coil stops from the flippers and replaced the sleeves ( worn and dirty ).

Rubbed out all ball tracks with a tiny bit of novus 2.

Cleaned all the ball tracks off of the standup targets with a little RC-88 rubber cleaner on a q-tip.

I applied a fresh coat of 100% carnauba to near everywhere I could reach with my fingertips.

Shined up and polished my game, its a beautiful thing indeed!

After 3 games the ball tracking is returning....

I did not get under the tunnels, I need a little flexible cleaning pad of some sort on maybe a rubberized wire?

I guess I have to do a better job next time

#1058 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from pinballinreno:
After 3 games the ball tracking is returning....

That's normal.

The ball running in the exact same place hundreds of times a game, will quickly reveal the true surface that was hidden by the wax.

Same with fine scratches on your car, they are gone the day you wax, but return in a few weeks.

Just make sure you have brand new balls installed......

#1059 7 years ago

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 134K 13,602

Quoted from pinballinreno:
After 3 games the ball tracking is returning....
I did not get under the tunnels, I need a little flexible cleaning pad of some sort on maybe a rubberized wire?
I guess I have to do a better job next time

If it's tracks that are just black dirt when you wipe.. then you missed some dirty spots. If they are the dull tracks... that's probably just beating back the filler the wax provided.

Subways, troughs, and scoops are usually the biggest keepers of dirt given their location and the tendency for people to skip them.

#1060 7 years ago

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

10y 137K 16,151 31 1

Quoted from flynnibus:
If it's tracks that are just black dirt when you wipe.. then you missed some dirty spots. If they are the dull tracks... that's probably just beating back the filler the wax provided.
Subways, troughs, and scoops are usually the biggest keepers of dirt given their location and the tendency for people to skip them.

Yep, I need to rig up a sort of cleaning wand to get under stuff.
I also cleaned a ton of black off the magnet cores.

3 weeks later

#1061 7 years ago

phillyfan64

Pinside+ Frequent

Monroe Township, NJ

9y 73,050 1,794 4 2

I used that Blitz Grand One on my Mata Hari today. That stuff is fantastic. Very easy to work with and no white residue left behind that I could see. Machine plays super fast now. I have to do my car with this stuff. Thanks vid1900 for the recommendation.

#1062 7 years ago

thundergod76

Pinside member

Cleveland, OH

9y 84,300 2,347 2

Quoted from phillyfan64:
I used that Blitz Grand One on my Mata Hari today. That stuff is fantastic. Very easy to work with and no white residue left behind that I could see. Machine plays super fast now. I have to do my car with this stuff. Thanks vid1900 for the recommendation.

I'm looking for other waxes to use other than Blitz. I spend as much time vacuuming the damn chunks up as I do cleaning and waxing. It even clumps up while applying it. Gets worse each time I use it. Maybe I got a bad batch?

#1063 7 years ago

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

10y 137K 16,151 31 1

Quoted from thundergod76:
I'm looking for other waxes to use other than Blitz. I spend as much time vacuuming the damn chunks up as I do cleaning and waxing. It even clumps up while applying it. Gets worse each time I use it. Maybe I got a bad batch?

If you put too thick a coat of wax then you will get a lot of dust.
Really you just need the thinnest coat to do the job. Contrary to popular opinion you cant "build up" wax coats. If you did it would all grind off with the ball rolling on it anyway.

If you dont like Blitz then maybe use P21S pure carnauba in the silver can. It leaves little or no residue even if you put a little too much on, and no dust to speak of.

Also P21S goes on butter smooth so you can apply super thin coats.

#1064 7 years ago

phillyfan64

Pinside+ Frequent

Monroe Township, NJ

9y 73,050 1,794 4 2

Quoted from thundergod76:
I'm looking for other waxes to use other than Blitz. I spend as much time vacuuming the damn chunks up as I do cleaning and waxing. It even clumps up while applying it. Gets worse each time I use it. Maybe I got a bad batch?

That's strange. I did not have that issue. I was very pleased with how easy it went on and off.

#1065 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from thundergod76:
I'm looking for other waxes to use other than Blitz. I spend as much time vacuuming the damn chunks up as I do cleaning and waxing. It even clumps up while applying it. Gets worse each time I use it. Maybe I got a bad batch?

I've never seen any chunks from Blitz.

Clean all your old wax off the game with Naphtha.

Now use a tiny amount of Blitz to wax your game.

It should look like this:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide/page/9#post-2734047

#1066 7 years ago

thundergod76

Pinside member

Cleveland, OH

9y 84,300 2,347 2

Will adjust my technique and see what happens. Thanks!

1 week later

#1067 7 years ago

Pale_Purple

Inactive member

9y 50,650 629 7

Maybe a dumb question but I just got some new balls from titan and they ship with a little oil to prevent rusting. It says to clean them but not how. Just wipe them down with a microfiber cloth? Put a little novus 2 on and wipe off or something?

#1068 7 years ago

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

10y 137K 16,151 31 1

Quoted from Pale_Purple:
Maybe a dumb question but I just got some new balls from titan and they ship with a little oil to prevent rusting. It says to clean them but not how. Just wipe them down with a microfiber cloth? Put a little novus 2 on and wipe off or something?

Rubbing alcohol, windex, dish soap or any type of gentle degreaser.
let them dry and your good to go.
Some people wax the balls but the wax just grinds off in seconds so dont bother.

#1069 7 years ago

pinheadpierre

Pinside member

10y 99,300 2,692 17

Quoted from pinballinreno:
Rubbing alcohol, windex, dish soap or any type of gentle degreaser.
let them dry and your good to go.
Some people wax the balls but the wax just grinds off in seconds so dont bother.

Sometimes I wax my balls just for fun... ...makes any game extra fast, if only for a short time.

Post last edited 7 years ago: “Fixed emoticon.”

#1071 7 years ago

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from Pale_Purple:
Maybe a dumb question but I just got some new balls from titan and they ship with a little oil to prevent rusting. It says to clean them but not how. Just wipe them down with a microfiber cloth? Put a little novus 2 on and wipe off or something?

You can spray them with Brake Cleaner and they will be completely de-oiled, or Mineral Spirits followed by a quick alcohol or windex wiping.

#1072 7 years ago

northvibe

Pinside+ Frequent

13y 121K 14,090 1

about to tear the pf's on my Black Hole down. Clean the pf with naphtha and wax? simple?

Edit: naphtha is a thinner so it freaks me out to clean the pf with it.....

#1073 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

Ok, I don't get it. I'm still having a lot of trouble with waxing. I don't seem to be able to end up with a slick surface any more, and I don't know what's going wrong here.

I have a brand new can of blitz. Brand new microfiber cloths.

Add water to a microfiber cloth. Rub the cloth in the wax until it warms up and starts to melt. Apply the gooey wax generously to the playfield in circles, and leave it to dry.

It dries and turns white.

When try to slide my finger over it, my finger just stops and doesn't glide--it is not slick at all. If I try to wipe it off with a dry, microfiber cloth, it takes a bit of rubbing. Again, the playfield is not slick at all and my finger doesn't slide.

Thoughts?

#1074 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

That's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too much wax.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide/page/9#post-2734047

#1075 7 years ago

TheLaw

Pinside+ Addict

Ann Arbor, MI

12y 167K 49,758 18 31

Whoa Diamond Jim Brady over here with the Blitz...you win the lottery or something?

#1076 7 years ago

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

10y 137K 16,151 31 1

Quoted from ForceFlow:
Ok, I don't get it. I'm still having a lot of trouble with waxing. I don't seem to be able to end up with a slick surface any more, and I don't know what's going wrong here.
I have a brand new can of blitz. Brand new microfiber cloths.
Add water to a microfiber cloth. Rub the cloth in the wax until it warms up and starts to melt. Apply the gooey wax generously to the playfield in circles, and leave it to dry.
It dries and turns white.
When try to slide my finger over it, my finger just stops and doesn't glide--it is not slick at all. If I try to wipe it off with a dry, microfiber cloth, it takes a bit of rubbing. Again, the playfield is not slick at all and my finger doesn't slide.
Thoughts?

Re: "If I try to wipe it off with a dry, microfiber cloth, it takes a bit of rubbing"
Wax is still not dry, its only white on the surface.

Wax application is way heavy but ok it will wipe off. Let it dry again more completely after you wipe it off.
After you wipe off all of the wax from everywhere the surface will not glide to the touch. You finger will drag like its got wax on it.
Now take a clean yellow flannel cloth and buff the surface to a brilliant shine.

You might have to clean all the wax off and do it over with a very VERY, thin coat of wax.

You should barely be able to see where you are putting the wax, yes that thin.

I have botched a wax job before by putting too much on it and had to start over, the Wax was so thick it didn't stick, just balled up in clumps and never shined up.

I have not had super good results trying to buff out with microfiber. Im using yellow flannel now just as I have been for 30 years.
As you buff it out the flannel cloth will slide easier and easier ultimately. Turn the cloth often allow the surface to breathe and dry up some more as you go.

Remember the thinnest possible coats of wax give the finest results. And dry much faster.
Dont put water on your applicator ( makes the wax dry times too long), if you must the applicator should be only slightly damp never wet. Heat friction and motion melts the wax as you apply it.

#1077 7 years ago

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 134K 13,602

Quoted from ForceFlow:
When try to slide my finger over it, my finger just stops and doesn't glide--it is not slick at all. If I try to wipe it off with a dry, microfiber cloth, it takes a bit of rubbing. Again, the playfield is not slick at all and my finger doesn't slide.
Thoughts?

wax will be very much 'drag' until it's residual is removed and the surface is buffed. You don't need to add water really.. just mist the rag and work it into the wax until the wax is allowing wax to get on the rag.

Wax will be a little tough to wipe but as you remove the excess.. keep moving to a clean part of your rag. As you buff the surface, it will get slick. When you can't remove the dried wax fully.. your rag is dirty, or there was way too much wax or it's not dried yet.

#1078 7 years ago

Gogojohnnyquack

Pinside+ Frequent

Seattle, WA

9y 84,300 1,383 5

Quoted from ForceFlow:
Thoughts?

I recommend watching the guy from Buffalo Pinball's cleaning/waxing guide too - very informative and full of great tips:

#1079 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

Ok, trying this again...

I basically buffed it on this time, which I originally did in the past, instead of basically slathering it on, which I basically did in the photos in the previous post.

#1080 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

After 10 minutes, it seemed to wipe off easily with a finger.

However, not so easy with a cloth. There was a lot of friction. So, I stopped.

#1081 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

I went back to it after a few more minutes, but there was still a lot of friction.

I finished wiping off the wax, buffed the playfield with a clean cloth, but still the playfield is not slick, and offers a fair amount of friction, just like before.

#1082 7 years ago

Spyderturbo007

Pinside member

9y 108K 5,659

Quoted from ForceFlow:
Add water to a microfiber cloth.

I think this is where you're going wrong. The water is going to make a mess of the wax. I like to use an applicator pad, but I'm sure microfiber is fine. You don't need to scrub the cloth in the wax, just rub it around on the top of the wax. Then apply it to the playfield. Wait about 10 minutes and come back with a towel and wipe it off.

I'd bet money that the water is what's making a mess of things.

#1083 7 years ago

Spyderturbo007

Pinside member

9y 108K 5,659

Hi Vid, I just wanted to confirm that using Naphtha will not do any damage to the Bally Safari EM I picked up last night? Just put some on the towel and wipe it down? Any post cleanup work to do?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-qt-Varnish-Maker-and-Painter-s-Naphtha-QVM46/100122813

#1084 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

Quoted from Spyderturbo007:
I think this is where you're going wrong. The water is going to make a mess of the wax. I like to use an applicator pad, but I'm sure microfiber is fine. You don't need to scrub the cloth in the wax, just rub it around on the top of the wax. Then apply it to the playfield. Wait about 10 minutes and come back with a towel and wipe it off.
I'd bet money that the water is what's making a mess of things.

I tried it without water the second time. It didn't make a difference.

#1085 7 years ago

TomGWI

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 143K 10,974 157 1

Quoted from ForceFlow:
After 10 minutes, it seemed to wipe off easily with a finger.

However, not so easy with a cloth. There was a lot of friction. So, I stopped.

If you can wipe it with your finger it is still too wet. I usually let the wax sit 20-30 minutes and then take a cloth and do a soft circular motion over the wax. The wax should look dry before you wipe it. The playfield should shine and surface should feel a little slick after you wipe.

#1086 7 years ago

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

10y 137K 16,151 31 1

Quoted from ForceFlow:
I tried it without water the second time. It didn't make a difference.

Too much moisture, either in the pad or too heavy a coat of wax still.

Let it dry, overnight of thats what it takes. It has to be "bone dry" in order to work.

The wax is still "green", probably still too heavy of an application for the drying time expected.

Wet wax will just re-wax as you are trying to get it to lay down and ultimately just rub off without laying down a coat.

Each coat of wax removes the prior coat.

Remember, the thinnest possible coats work the best. It should be so thin that you can barely see it when applying.

Use an applicator sponge that is fairly dry, maybe 4 drops of water if its super dry and wring it in a towel.
Rub the applicator on the pot in a circular fashion until it liquefies scrape off excess wax into the pot before application.
If you have to, wipe the applicator pad onto a rag to remove excess wax before applying.

#1087 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

Well, I applied a very thin layer of wax and let it sit over night. Wiped it off in the morning, and the playfield still doesn't seem like I've actually done anything to it.

However, I also waxed the metal ramps, and those seem slick, like I would expect. The wax just doesn't seem to be taking on the playfields of the last couple games I've worked on.

Before that I wasn't having a problem, and I haven't changed any of the cleaning products or wax I've been using.

#1088 7 years ago

Humph

Pinside member

9y 35,800 259

Quoted from ForceFlow:
Well, I applied a very thin layer of wax and let it sit over night. Wiped it off in the morning, and the playfield still doesn't seem like I've actually done anything to it.
However, I also waxed the metal ramps, and those seem slick, like I would expect. The wax just doesn't seem to be taking on the playfields of the last couple games I've worked on.
Before that I wasn't having a problem, and I haven't changed any of the cleaning products or wax I've been using.

Hey ForceFlow,

Is it possible something happened to the wax since the last (successful) time you used it (chemical change due to age, stored in hot or cold environment, etc.)?

Maybe try a new can of wax of same brand?

I dunno, but what a strange problem -- good luck.

#1089 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from ForceFlow:
Well, I applied a very thin layer of wax and let it sit over night. Wiped it off in the morning, and the playfield still doesn't seem like I've actually done anything to it.

Clean off a section with Naphtha to get a fresh start, new wax with just a clean, dry paper towel, wipe off wax with paper towel.

#1090 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

Quoted from Humph:
Maybe try a new can of wax of same brand?

This is a new can

OPQuoted from vid1900:
Clean off a section with Naphtha to get a fresh start, new wax with just a clean, dry paper towel, wipe off wax with paper towel.

Ok, I'll give that a try.

1 week later

#1091 7 years ago

phillyfan64

Pinside+ Frequent

Monroe Township, NJ

9y 73,050 1,794 4 2

I'm having a real hard time getting this Mata Hari shooter lane clean. I've tried Naphtha, Magic Eraser, Simple Green, alcohol, (not all at the same time, I let them dry!). Anything else left to try? I got a lot of it off but the rest looks like it's not coming off. I think I may have got a little too zealous with the Magic Eraser. It may have removed some of the original lacquer or Tuff Coat as Bally called it. Or maybe it's just the wax that's removed. Not sure. Anyway I will re wax the lane but I'm hoping vid1900 or somebody has a suggestion to finish cleaning this. Thank you.

#1092 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

Quoted from ForceFlow:
This is a new can

Ok, I'll give that a try.

Well, that seemed to have done the trick.

#1093 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

Quoted from phillyfan64:
I'm having a real hard time getting this Mata Hari shooter lane clean. I've tried Naphtha, Magic Eraser, Simple Green, alcohol, (not all at the same time, I let them dry!). Anything else left to try? I got a lot of it off but the rest looks like it's not coming off. I think I may have got a little too zealous with the Magic Eraser. It may have removed some of the original lacquer or Tuff Coat as Bally called it. Or maybe it's just the wax that's removed. Not sure. Anyway I will re wax the lane but I'm hoping vid1900 or somebody has a suggestion to finish cleaning this. Thank you.

You will probably have to sand down the shooter lane. All that discoloration is embedded in the wood, not on the surface.

#1094 7 years ago

phillyfan64

Pinside+ Frequent

Monroe Township, NJ

9y 73,050 1,794 4 2

Quoted from ForceFlow:
You will probably have to sand down the shooter lane. All that discoloration is embedded in the wood, not on the surface.

Thanks, I was afraid of that.

#1095 7 years ago

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

10y 137K 16,151 31 1

Quoted from ForceFlow:
Well, that seemed to have done the trick.

I botched a wax job on my TR-3 years ago.
I waxed the car at night, applied too much wax, night was overcast that started to rain/drizzle.
Even after the wax baked in the sun it would ball up and not polish or stick right.

I ended up wiping the car down with white gas and rewashing the whole car.

The next wax job was flawless, same can of wax etc...

#1096 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from phillyfan64:
I'm having a real hard time getting this Mata Hari shooter lane clean. I've tried Naphtha, Magic Eraser, Simple Green, alcohol, (not all at the same time, I let them dry!). Anything else left to try? I got a lot of it off but the rest looks like it's not coming off. I think I may have got a little too zealous with the Magic Eraser. It may have removed some of the original lacquer or Tuff Coat as Bally called it. Or maybe it's just the wax that's removed. Not sure. Anyway I will re wax the lane but I'm hoping vid1900 or somebody has a suggestion to finish cleaning this. Thank you.

You can put Mylar down if you took all the lacquer off.

If it's deep, you have to sand it out.

If it's really deep, you have to repaint the lane.

I'd probably just Mylar it, and some day if you restore the playfield, you can fix it permanently.

#1097 7 years ago

phillyfan64

Pinside+ Frequent

Monroe Township, NJ

9y 73,050 1,794 4 2

I did try sanding it a little. It's a little better but not great. I didn't want to go crazy with it right now. It does look like some of the lacquer is gone. For now I only rewaxed it. Is that good enough or am I asking for problems down the road? How do I Mylar the shooting lane with the groove in there?

#1098 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

It's a slice of a cone, so stick the Mylar down oversized, then trim with single edge razor knife

#1099 7 years ago

phillyfan64

Pinside+ Frequent

Monroe Township, NJ

9y 73,050 1,794 4 2

OPQuoted from vid1900:
It's a slice of a cone, so stick the Mylar down oversized, then trim with single edge razor knife

That's probably what I'm going to wind up doing, thanks.

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#1101 7 years ago

Coyote

Pinside member

9y 107K 9,093

I would put it on as soon as I took the game out of the box.

#1102 7 years ago

Oaklandasfan1969

Inactive member

9y 36,050 38

Thanks Coyote

#1103 7 years ago

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 134K 13,602

Quoted from Oaklandasfan1969:
Does anyone know whether you are supposed to put Wax on a new out of box machine or does it not matter until your first cleaning?

You can.. it's not a bad practice.. as ultimately its just protecting the PF under it. But you don't "have to" - you won't kill it.

#1104 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from Oaklandasfan1969:
Does anyone know whether you are supposed to put Wax on a new out of box machine or does it not matter until your first cleaning?

Always wax before you run any balls through it.

#1105 7 years ago

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 241K 32,501 282 14

Quoted from flynnibus:
You can.. it's not a bad practice.. as ultimately its just protecting the PF under it. But you don't "have to" - you won't kill it.

No, but ball trails will develop much more quickly.

#1106 7 years ago

Nokoro

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 137K 5,555 18

Quoted from flynnibus:
You can.. it's not a bad practice.. as ultimately its just protecting the PF under it. But you don't "have to" - you won't kill it.

I can't hold myself back from playing those first few games, but when I bought NIB, I try to wax at least within the first couple of weeks. It really just depends upon how anal you are.

#1107 7 years ago

Pincinnati

10y 193K 32,159 16 13

Quoted from ForceFlow:
No, but ball trails will develop much more quickly.

That's from the crappy stock black rubbers imo. Single best thing I did to prevent ball trails was replace them.

#1108 7 years ago

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 134K 13,602

Quoted from ForceFlow:
No, but ball trails will develop much more quickly.

Meh. It's the dirt generation that dictates that. On modern stuff, keep the dirt in check and it will take tons of plays to get any trails that don't just wipe right back off. We're talking tiny upon tiny. You just spent 5000-10000 dollars... you can enjoy the game and not do any harm.

-1

#1109 7 years ago

J85M

Hot Mods

Warrington

12y 152K 10,677 32

Any body ever used this or know anyone that has?

https://pu-parts.com/pinball-surface-cleaner

#1110 7 years ago

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

10y 137K 16,151 31 1

Quoted from J85M:
Any body ever used this or know anyone that has?
https://pu-parts.com/pinball-surface-cleaner

WOW, I hope it cleans as good as Pledge...

-1

#1111 7 years ago

J85M

Hot Mods

Warrington

12y 152K 10,677 32

Quoted from pinballinreno:
WOW, I hope it cleans as good as Pledge...

I usually use Pledge or Mr Sheen, but like to try new things especially if they are better, someone must have used this stuff?

#1112 7 years ago

PeterG

Pinside member

9y 88,300 2,170 65

I think it is stated clearly to use only Nafta to clean and pure carnauba wax like One Grand for waxing. You do not need more.

#1113 7 years ago

J85M

Hot Mods

Warrington

12y 152K 10,677 32

Quoted from PeterG:
I think it is stated clearly to use only Nafta to clean and pure carnauba wax like One Grand for waxing. You do not need more.

Maybe I've missed it in this thread but I can't find Nafta online other than a thinner product, which doesn't sound right.

I use one grand but was curious if anyone had used that stuff from pinball universe, didn't realise we couldn't ask questions on Pinside anymore

#1114 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from J85M:
Maybe I've missed it in this thread but I can't find Nafta online other than a thinner product, which doesn't sound right.

Naphtha is the stuff you refill a cigarette lighter with, they might not ship it through the mail.

Go to any motor store and ask for "panel wipe" (the stuff you wipe a car with before painting).

Quoted from J85M:
I use one grand but was curious if anyone had used that stuff from pinball universe, didn't realise we couldn't ask questions on Pinside anymore

Any liquid "wax" will contain silicones, and that is bad.

Naphtha is cheap in the UK (£9.99 for 4L), so clean with that, then use real One Grand PASTE wax to protect.

#1115 7 years ago

PeterG

Pinside member

9y 88,300 2,170 65

I have the Coleman fuel from any camp store here in Europe. Works great. And is also cheap. 6€

#1116 7 years ago

footer

Pinside member

Stillwater, MN

9y 17,250 14 9

OPQuoted from vid1900:
Show me some dirt on a playfield that requires hand cleaner to remove it.

Should I try hand cleaner on this playfield?

#1117 7 years ago

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from footer:
Should I try hand cleaner on this playfield?

I would not, lol

#1118 7 years ago

browrp

Pinside member

7y 23,050 25

Do they make Blitz Wax anymore? I looked up the One Grand site to order some but it looks like both the 800 number doesn't reach anyone and the local 805 numbers have both been disconnected. I emailed them at their email address on their site and it bounced back... Did they close up shop?

#1119 7 years ago

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Blitz had a fire, but it's back in stock at a number of dealers.

http://www.ccswholesale.com/onegrandblitzcarnaubawax-15ozcan.aspx

#1120 7 years ago

mrboboto

Pinside member

Cambridge, MA

10y 27,550 72 3

OPQuoted from vid1900:
Blitz had a fire, but it's back in stock at a number of dealers.
http://www.ccswholesale.com/onegrandblitzcarnaubawax-15ozcan.aspx

That link is to their wholesale site- I just placed an order there, and got a call back from them asking for more info + charging me shipping. He asked that, unless you're in the trade, you make orders from their retail site-

http://store.carcareonline.com/onegrandblitzcarnaubawax-15ozcan.aspx

#1121 7 years ago

Jeremy8419

Pinside member

7y 27,050 259

Just reread the guides.

Why naptha? You state a bunch of reasons for why naptha and not other stuff, but all of those reasons exist for naptha as well.

I'm not stating this from an "I've tried this a bunch" standpoint, because I haven't, which is why I am reading the guide so I can clean/wax, but just from an objective observation. Naptha isn't a chemical, but rather a loose generalization of a mixture of chemicals of unknown and highly variable composition. It's a petroleum distillate, so every post that states "don't use petroleum distillates" and "because that's a petroleum distillate" makes no sense, even less so when you consider that the composition of naphtha contains an unknown quantity of very bad chemicals which are toxic and carcinogenic instead of any high purity chemical. This makes even less sense when you add in the fact that it's an actual fuel that you're working with. This makes even less sense when you consider that part of the chemical composition of the naphtha chemical mixture you are using is the ACTUAL chemical which is fulfilling the intended purpose in the intended manner you desire which you could then just buy in a distilled form. Idk. Actually making all these various chemicals IRL for a living makes the whole "naphtha" argument make no logical sense. As a starting point for "hey this stuff works"? Yeah. But after that the logic with "naphtha" seems to go out the window.

I searched Acetone in the thread after reading through the guides and saw the aforementioned cases of inconsistent logic, but something like acetone makes more sense.

#1122 7 years ago

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

We use Naphtha (or more specifically, Varnish Makers & Painters Naphtha ) to de-wax a playfield because Naphtha has properties that other solvents don't have.

Naphtha DOES NOT dissolve or cloud Lacquer, Urethane or 2PAC.

Naphtha DOES NOT cloud playfield plastics or ramps.

Naphtha DOES NOT raise the grain of bare wood.

Naphtha DOES NOT leave a trace of ANY petroleum behind once it evaporates.

I can't think of any other common solvent that has all the above properties, can you?

Acetone ruins Lacquer and clouds most plastics.

Alcohol ruins Lacquer and raises the grain of wood.

Lacquer Thinner clouds Urethane 2PAC, most plastics and melts Lacquer.

Methyl Ethel Keytone eats everything it touches, including epoxy finishes.

So out of any common solvent we can buy at Woodcraft, Home Depot or the auto paint store, VM&P Naphtha is our choice.

Auto refinishers, guitar repair shops and LSD labs all depend on it every day.

Key post

#1123 7 years ago

Jeremy8419

Pinside member

7y 27,050 259

OPQuoted from vid1900:
We use Naphtha (or more specifically, Varnish Makers & Painters Naphtha ) to de-wax a playfield because Naphtha has properties that other solvents don't have.
Naphtha DOES NOT dissolve or cloud Lacquer, Urethane or 2PAC.
Naphtha DOES NOT cloud playfield plastics or ramps.
Naphtha DOES NOT raise the grain of bare wood.
Naphtha DOES NOT leave a trace of ANY petroleum behind once it evaporates.
I can't think of any other common solvent that has all the above properties, can you?
-
Acetone ruins Lacquer and clouds most plastics.
Alcohol ruins Lacquer and raises the grain of wood.
Lacquer Thinner clouds Urethane 2PAC, most plastics and melts Lacquer.
Methyl Ethel Keytone eats everything it touches, including epoxy finishes.
-
So out of any common solvent we can buy at Woodcraft, Home Depot or the auto paint store, VM&P Naphtha is our choice.
Auto refinishers, guitar repair shops and LSD labs all depend on it every day.

https://s26.postimg.org/hem3vv1eh/wp_ss_20170902_0002.png

You're primarily using it, because it's a fast evaporating liquid hydrocarbon, which is why some stated they use lighter fluid, which is butane. In this case, its either the toluene or the smxylene which you like. Naphtha, regardless of who uses it, contains benzene, which is a legit bad chemical for causing cancer, similar to asbestos and it's effects on the lungs. In the oil and gas and chemicals industries, benzene is a chemical which has giant warning signs all over the place and has lots of testing done to make sure it isn't going to the environment.

That up there ^ should say toluene and xylene. On my phone and wont let me go back and edit.

Found this: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/A_Primer_on_Solvents
I'd take the suitable method that doesn't include benzene, which would be buying xylene and then diluting with toluene, if you want it to be faster drying. Depending on the solution, I'd probably put it in a spray bottle, spray the field, then wipe dry.

#1124 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Xylene and Toluene are excellent solvents, but they can cloud water based finishes, like if someone touched up a shooter lane or saucer with Varathane in the past.

Don't even think of bringing Xylene near a modern finish acoustic guitar like a Seagull

There are a zillion solvents on the shelf at HD, but the least risky one for cleaning what you might likely encounter on a pinball (or guitar) is Naphtha.

#1125 7 years ago

TomGWI

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 143K 10,974 157 1

Insert popcorn gif here

#1126 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from TomGWI:
Insert popcorn gif here

It's not even all that interesting.

Naphtha is cheap ($14 a gallon), locally available (even people in Cali can just walk into Woodcraft), and does not dissolve or soften any pinball playfield coating I've ever encountered.

Every professional pinball restorer uses it, every guitar and violin luither uses it, and every auto paint shop uses it.

The reason that everybody uses it, is that it does not f anything up (and probably because it's cheap).

Just like cleaning your bathroom shower, put some gloves on, open the windows (or put on your chem mask), and clean away.....

#1127 7 years ago

Jeremy8419

Pinside member

7y 27,050 259

OPQuoted from vid1900:
Xylene and Toluene are excellent solvents, but they can cloud water based finishes, like if someone touched up a shooter lane or saucer with Varathane in the past.
Don't even think of bringing Xylene near a modern finish acoustic guitar like a Seagull
There are a zillion solvents on the shelf at HD, but the least risky one for cleaning what you might likely encounter on a pinball (or guitar) is Naphtha.

I think you're missing the point, though... Naphtha IS Xylene and Toluene. The image I provided shows the composition of Naphtha. Mostly xylene, toluene, pentane, hexane, cyclohexane, heptane.

#1128 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from Jeremy8419:
I think you're missing the point, though... Naphtha IS Xylene and Toluene. The image I provided shows the composition of Naphtha. Mostly xylene, toluene, pentane, hexane, cyclohexane, heptane.

I must be missing your point.

All anyone on this thread is worried about is just that the product will remove wax and is safe for finishes commonly found in pinball machines.

All anyone is worried about in a guitar shop is that it's safe for all guitar finishes.

All anyone is worried about when making LSD is that it evaporates completely.

All anyone is worried about when painting a car is that it de-waxes and does not leave any oils behind.

If you feel you need to use pure Toluene or Hexane on your pinball machine because Naphtha is not strong enough, I suggest you test a few inconspicuous areas and make sure you don't get any softening of the top coat. Remember that 4 different companies may have made the same playfield for Williams in a single year. All may have some chemical variations in their finishes.

If you are worried about toxic ingredients in a certain brand of Naphtha, most brands I have in the shop don't even break it down.

For instance, the Kleen Strip VM&P Naphtha that everyone buys at HD and Woodcraft, says on the can it's 95-100% "Petroleum Ether" with a boiling point of 242*F.

Sunnyside VM&P Naphtha that they sell at AutoMart says it contains 99% Extra Light Aliphatic Naphtha.

-2

#1129 7 years ago

Jeremy8419

Pinside member

7y 27,050 259

OPQuoted from vid1900:
I must be missing your point.
All anyone on this thread is worried about is just that the product will remove wax and is safe for finishes commonly found in pinball machines.
All anyone is worried about in a guitar shop is that it's safe for all guitar finishes.
All anyone is worried about when making LSD is that it evaporates completely.
All anyone is worried about when painting a car is that it de-waxes and does not leave any oils behind.
If you feel you need to use pure Toluene or Hexane on your pinball machine because Naphtha is not strong enough, I suggest you test a few inconspicuous areas and make sure you don't get any softening of the top coat. Remember that 4 different companies may have made the same playfield for Williams in a single year. All may have some chemical variations in their finishes.
If you are worried about toxic ingredients in a certain brand of Naphtha, most brands I have in the shop don't even break it down.
For instance, the Kleen Strip VM&P Naphtha that everyone buys at HD and Woodcraft, says on the can it's 95-100% "Petroleum Ether" with a boiling point of 242*F.
Sunnyside VM&P Naphtha that they sell at AutoMart says it contains 99% Extra Light Aliphatic Naphtha.

Naphtha has benzene in it. Benzene bad. Bad bad.

#1130 7 years ago

Vino

Pinside+ Addict

8y 174K 6,888 64 2

What's bad bad bad is your need to droll on and on about it.
Simply go make your own thread and guide that's Naphtha free.

#1131 7 years ago

klr650

Pinside+ Frequent

8y 93,550 932 161

VM&P Naphtha
CAS # 64742-89-8

Composition:
33% Paraffins
67% Napthenes (cycloparaffins)
0.2% Aromatics
< 0.0002% Benzene

That doesn't seem like a lot of Benzene does it?

-2

#1132 7 years ago

Jeremy8419

Pinside member

7y 27,050 259

Quoted from klr650:
VM&P Naphtha
CAS # 64742-89-8
Composition:
33% Paraffins
67% Napthenes (cycloparaffins)
0.2% Aromatics
< 0.0002% Benzene
That doesn't seem like a lot of Benzene does it?

Nope.

Still doesn't make the rest of the argument make sense, though, because that's even more of the other stuff.

Minus benzene, you're left with the other stuff.

So, what is it that is the "good stuff"?

#1133 7 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

I used to be in a band called the cycloparaffins, but we spelled it Psychoparaffins .

We tore it up.

#1134 7 years ago

Pinzap

Pinside+ Frequent

8y 119K 2,014 40 34

Quoted from klr650:
VM&P Naphtha
CAS # 64742-89-8
Composition:
33% Paraffins
67% Napthenes (cycloparaffins)
0.2% Aromatics
< 0.0002% Benzene
That doesn't seem like a lot of Benzene does it?

Quoted from Jeremy8419:
So, what is it that is the "good stuff"?

For me, it's probably the Aromatics!!

#1135 7 years ago

weaselfest

Pinside member

Iowa City, IA

10y 43,150 248 1

OPQuoted from vid1900:
I used to be in a band called the cycloparaffins, but we spelled it Psychoparaffins .
We tore it up.

#1136 7 years ago

arcademojo

Pinside member

11y 131K 5,517 30

I'll stick with Naphtha for my classics. Been using it for years.

#1137 7 years ago

Jeremy8419

Pinside member

7y 27,050 259

I was going easy... That brand is 30% xylene, 30% toluene, 30% acetone. Case dismissed.

#1138 7 years ago

xsvtoys

Pinside member

9y 103K 4,409

Hell in the old days we used to throw that straight benzene around right and left, slop it all over our hands, it was everywhere. Not sure why I'm not dead yet actually.

#1139 7 years ago

Jeremy8419

Pinside member

7y 27,050 259

Quoted from xsvtoys:
Hell in the old days we used to throw that straight benzene around right and left, slop it all over our hands, it was everywhere. Not sure why I'm not dead yet actually.

Yeah, I was gonna mention that lmao.

#1140 7 years ago

jibmums

Pinside member

12y 102K 4,197 17

Quoted from xsvtoys:
Hell in the old days we used to throw that straight benzene around right and left, slop it all over our hands, it was everywhere. Not sure why I'm not dead yet actually.

I worked in a screen printing department in the late 90's, used to wash the ink off the screens, and then wash my hands, with benzene, xylene, xylol, lacquer thinner, anything we had around. I'm a ticking cancer time bomb.

#1141 7 years ago

Jeremy8419

Pinside member

7y 27,050 259

Quoted from jibmums:
I worked in a screen printing department in the late 90's, used to wash the ink off the screens, and then wash my hands, with benzene, xylene, xylol, lacquer thinner, anything we had around. I'm a ticking cancer time bomb.

Don't forget the herpes!

3 weeks later

#1142 6 years ago

Aladdin

Pinside member

11y 72,300 1,336 1

Here's a photo that I hope can show what Naphtha and Novus 2 can do for an EM Playfield:

On the left of the center buttons-
Cleaned with Naphtha and Micro Cloth
Then cleaned with Novus 2 and Micro Cloth

On the right-
Just Naphtha and Micro Cloth

No wax yet on either side

You can tell on this 1965 Ski Club the original Plasti Kote is still there

Post last edited 6 years ago: “Spelling of Nappytha”

1 week later

#1143 6 years ago

Dee-Bow

Pinside member

Regina, SK

8y 101K 5,552 4

I just see the reflection of your window shining on the playfield.

#1144 6 years ago

Aladdin

Pinside member

11y 72,300 1,336 1

Quoted from Dee-Bow:
I just see the reflection of your window shining on the playfield.

I think that's Taylor Swift's new song

#1145 6 years ago

Madmax541

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 110K 2,069

Vid,
I have a Porter cable 7424 & pads that came with kit, Blitz wax.
Looking for direction on getting the best results on a new CPR playfield.
Do you apply Blitz by hand let it dry to a haze, then buff or do you recommend using certain pads that com with kit.
In past have used treasure cove product.
Thanks

#1146 6 years ago

Madmax541

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 110K 2,069

Also do you recommend multiple coats and so how long in between coats?

#1147 6 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from Madmax541:
Also do you recommend multiple coats and so how long in between coats?

One coat of wax is all you need

#1148 6 years ago

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 174K 41,332 18

Quoted from Madmax541:
Vid,
I have a Porter cable 7424 & pads that came with kit, Blitz wax.
Looking for direction on getting the best results on a new CPR playfield.
Do you apply Blitz by hand let it dry to a haze, then buff or do you recommend using certain pads that com with kit.
In past have used treasure cove product.
Thanks

I usually just wax by hand, then wipe off.

The buffer is good for when you want to use compounds to actually polish the playfield.

#1149 6 years ago

Madmax541

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 110K 2,069

Excellent thanks

#1150 6 years ago

Wiggy

Inactive member

7y 26,650 172

Newbie question. Why is Naphtha a better choice than isopropyl alcohol?

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